Paul Simon on Shane McGowan

Shane McGown, one of Ireland’s best known singers and composers died on the 29th November 2023. On 1st December,Paul Simon went on air with Ireland’s afternoon chat show, Liveline, hosted by Joe Duffy. He had been to Shane McGowan’s house a couple of times and he wanted to commiserate on his death and share his impressions and memories of him.

All my life, I have been inspired by Paul Simon’s songs which are, in essence, poetry.

I had recently been to Africa where I had seen some of his African songs played by a capella African singers and had been impressed by the way Paul Simon had brought this culture to us in such a genuine, unadulterated way. I was excited to hear this interview. I was not disappointed and I found his way of speaking to have a cadence of its own. He uses the word rythym to describe the flow of his conversation with Shane McGowan, and I enjoyed his poetic turn of phrase. I have recreated it here, as a tribute to Shane Mc Gowan and to record the words of a genius.

Like all good interviewers, Joe Duffy said very little. I have only included what Paul Simon said.

-I fell into the rhythm of his conversation. I didn’t try to impose a rhythm.

He would listen to what I said then, after a long pause, would give a lucid and incisive reply.

It isn’t the laugh that’s distinctive, but how often he would laugh.

The last concert I did,I went to see him. He was all dressed up, sitting in his wheelchair.

I said hey Shane -you got older!-

– Did you think I’d go the other way?

He was drinking a glass of wine

– I thought you were detoxing-

– Yes but not from wine

The listener finishes the song.

Never talked at length about songwriting.

He was charismatic in the way that Behan was in Borstal Boy.

My American vision of what Ireland was. – late 50s.

Maybe he knew about the Patriot Game. That’s where I heard about Behan

I saw Ewan Mc Coll at his club. His daughter, Kirsty.

Ewan Mc Coll and Peggy Seeger.

We were in some strange way connected before we met.

That’s not unusual in my life. 

That’s how I felt when I met him. That’s why I felt comfortable

Able to fall into the rhythm of what the other mind was thinking.

That was no problem.

Once we got to music, then it was just fun.

When you’re both musicians one of the things you look forward to is hearing what music they play and like.

One of his likes was jazz.

I had an album just about to come out. I played him a couple of tracks from it and he laughed – he was joking with me.

He said

You’re the better singer – and he laughed.

Our exchange was sweet.

The sun had shifted and the living room was dark and chilly.

Let’s go to the kitchen where the sun is shining.

It was a very striking day in my life when I met him.

I really feel, given the way he led his life, I think if it wasn’t for Victoria, he wouldn’t have been there that day.

I was very struck by some of his interviews.

He comes from artists. What he writes seems not exactly how he lived.

Not in need. Except in need to get back to Ireland.

The character that he often embodies in his songs is the embodiment of a character that was real.

I had a connection with Ireland because of the sound. I’m sorry I never lived there.

I have quite a few friends here.

Paul Muldoon

Derek Walcott 

I thought about Victoria more than Shane yesterday.

I’m looking across Central Park where there’s still some light on the trees. Some orange, some red..

It reminds me of the song I wrote:

Darling Lorraine –

 All the trees were washed with April rain 

 and the moon in the meadow took darling Lorraine..